Prop 8- was based on a law that a judge passed okaying gay marriage, the people voted and it came down to a close decision but the yes (meaning no on gay marriage) folk won and now half the state is as pissed as a tailless rattlesnake.
Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with woman. It is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death their blood shall be upon them."
Romans "1:27 "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
Okay, so now we know what the scripture says but have you ever talked to a homosexual before? They can be just as normal as us but they are attracted to the same sex. I used to hate gays and lesbians because everyone else did but now I have actually got to know a few and they are humans too. My faith tells me that they make a choice to be that way but why? A homosexual gets black-balled and catches so much scrutiny for that decision why would they do that, it's crazy. The point of this email is to hear some opinions because I'm sure somebody has heard something groundbreaking on this subject. I know for certain that we have to love them the same as everyone else no matter how difficult. Sin is sin; right? Their sin is no different than the lies you have kept in your closet for years. Let's remember to say how we feel but be respectful of eachothers feelings, don't jump to anger when someone writes something contrary to your beliefs we're all trying to work this out and get to the truth.
P.S. My mother (best mom ever) married a man who turned out to be gay before she met my dad and my fathers sister (my aunt) is lesbian. I don't really know my aunt but my mothers ex-husband is very nice.
Ben
10 comments:
Yes, we are to care for gays and lesbians but in caring we are to lead them out of this abomination. And to be honest I disagree with the phrase "sin is sin". Being gay is different than alot of sins we commit as sinners day in and day out. Choosing to be gay (and I emphasize the word choose) is a direct act of disobedience. Its not an "oops, I let my flesh get the best of me today" sin. Its a lifestyle that someone is choosing in spite of the Almighty God forbidding it. We as christians are called to repent or turn away from our sins. Maintaining gay relationships is in no way, shape, or form repentant. I'm not even real sure what to add to this email because to be honest I would think that we would all be pretty clear on where we should stand on this issue. To attempt in any way to defend gay marriage (which I don't believe at all thats what Jules is saying here) is a direct slap in the face to our Father in Heaven. We as christians should be outraged that the state succeeded in banning gay marriage and now is thinking about allowing it anyway despite the people's votes. The Mormon church has fought this thing extremely hard and though I disagree with their doctrines, I applaud their efforts to keep marriage the way God intended it. God gave us free will and being gay is a lifestyle choice that people directly make in spite or their Creator. Surely, we all feel this way.
-TEvans
PS - I have a first cousin who is a lesbian and one of the nicest people I have ever known. Being nice doesn't get you into Heaven. As much as I hate to say it, I believe she's going to hell for the lifestyle she has chosen.
Just to keep things clear with my email earlier. I'm not someone who is hating gays, I hate the idea of gay marriage. The email is titled Prop 8 so thats what I am the most heated about. I agree that we are to love ALL people. However, it should be a love with purpose rather than a "go with the flow" kind of love. Christians have been too passive for too long and we have lost our influence in this country. Worldly people have been pushing their agendas so much harder than christians have pushed theirs and look where our country is going. That is why I applaud the Mormon church on their persistence in the battle against gay marriage. My fellow christian americans: When is enough going to be enough and we stand up and bring this country back to "one nation under God"?
-Terry
good discussion...did some digging on this. spoke to my most trusted confidant, and i think i have come to a conclusion on how God wants us to view this situation.
First off, the scripture about homosexuality is pretty clear. But, i have a few things to add/subtract from some of the articles written.
Yes, being gay is a choice...name me a sin that we commit that's not. Murder...choice. Stealing...choice, telling lies...choice, adultery...choice. So lets be clear that choosing to sin is what we do. I do realize that a homosexual has committed to a lifestyle of sin and isn't usually willing to admit wrong. i don't think its okay...and i would tell a homosexual that. But, to say that God looks at homosexuality differently than other sins is not scripture led. Our God is a God of love and he isn't turning his back on anyone until they take their last breath defying him. In Romans 1 Paul talks about people of sin becoming reprobate of mind...basically saying that they have traveled down a road so far that there aint no comin back. For those people the end looks grim. But lets not be so quick to categorize homosexuals without categorizing ourselves. Some people believe that people are born gay and others believe they become that way through troubled childhoods or wierd upbringings. all this is hypothesis. this much we know is fact...we are all born into sinful lifestyles. our soul is bread to turn its back against the Lord, yet he he keeps loving us. so wether born that way or not...we are all born the same. side note...i personally do not know, or have ever heard about anyone converting from homosexuality to hetero, but in corinthians it talks about people who lived former lives as murderers, thieves, and homosexuals....this implies that it is possible to convert. that, though, was before gay parades, rainbow stickers and a media that endears gays....might be harder today.
Let me ask you this...is being a homosexual that repeatedly stumbles any different than a man that has a mistress and cheats on his wife over and over again. or is a homosexual any different than a man who has lied to his wife (or anybody else in the entire world), and in the act has built a web of lies that is endless. The answer is...in our society...yes there is. But in Gods eyes...I dont think there is...or he would have said it just like he said there were two commandments greater than the others. Lets be led by scripture, with actual fact.
Just in case anybody has doubts about me now...i have a beautiful wife and two daughters and love me some heterosex...but I also am a big believer in not adding or subtracting from what the Good Book says.
just sayin,
waino
Adam,
I don't think anybody has added or subtracted from the word. I think we've been dead on. I didn't understand your last question... is a homosexual different than a man who cheats on his wife? Yes. The homosexual has chosen to live a life totally separated from God. A man who cheats on his wife is no different then you or me. Every time you think of another women lustfully is the same is having sex with her. So we are both guilty of that! You can't be gay and be a Christian. There is no half pregnant and your either fully submitted to the Gospel or your not. We all sin yes, but we are forgiven by Christ because we have all accepted him as our Savior. My church has ministered to MANY homosexuals that have turned there life over to Christ and openly talk about how God pulled them out of it. Jesus never judged, but he also never backed down. We can't do that either, but too many Christians are soft and afraid of standing for what they believe in. Why is it acceptable for gay people to express what they want and what they need. What is going on here??? Anyone agree or am I freaking out? I'm scared sick for this country man.
Bear- Dude, you need to speak up more brother. Outstanding perspective. Your 100% right. We need to pray for them, love on them, while also standing by God's word. That's it!
I do believe that sin is sin, but there are some sins that 1.) have more severe consequences than others, 2.) some sins that are more damaging to society than others, and 3.) some sins that are more unnatural than others.
It seems to me in Romans 1 that a form of God's judgment is turning people over to there sins so that they get deeper and deeper into bondage. An example Paul gives is homosexuality.
We are to love them and seek to help them overcome the sin, but it is not a good sign for our society that things are headed the direction it is going.
- Durham
before I type this whole thing out again, I am going to test to see if it shows up
I've noticed from a few more comments here and there that I need to clear some more things up so I'll give it a try. I was going to bed when I got some emails and now I have to stay up and respond or I won't sleep all night. So here it goes again:
I do not believe at all that we as christians are supposed to hate gay people or turn our backs to them. That is the absolute last thing we are called to do. We are to love each and every one of these people just as Jesus Christ has loved us in our wretched lives. We are to draw nearer to them in order to share the gospel with them and save them from their sin. Here is where the problem lies for me so don't miss my point here. I am completely opposed to showing tolerance for the gay agenda in this country. Gay marriage should not be an option. Gay couples adopting children should be outlawed. Acknowledging a gay couple as equal to a heterosexual couple is blasphemy. We are called to convert sinners not tolerate them. And you're right Adam. Being gay is no different than having a mistress with whom you continue to cheat on your wife with over and over. However, both are sinful lifestyles that are to be addressed and not tolerated. If we agree that God views all sin the same and that being gay is a sin then tolerating gay rights would be the same as tolerating rights for rapists. Should we allow two mass murders to adopt a child? Absolutely not! You see my problem isn't the actual gay person. It is the attitude of tolerating such sin that has dumbed down christianity that I have a problem with. Being gay is a perverse sexual act known as Sodomy. Sodomy translates to "the sin of Sodom". We all know what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and I don't want to live in a country like that. And that is why I applauded the Mormon church for how hard they fought to ban gay marriage. Apparently, this has confused some of you so let me tell you what I'm saying here. I don't know why my words are twisted so. I applaud the Mormon church because they fought this thing the hardest. Yes, the church that supported polygamy until it was declared unconstitutional was the one group of people fighting this the hardest. I make this claim because they invested the most money into getting Proposition 8 passed. Why aren't we the christians the ones standing up front and center? Yes, I know my mormon history (I've lived in Salt Lake City the last two years) and I wasn't agreeing with any Mormon doctrine. I was simply applauding the Mormon church for speaking out against tolerating the sin of Sodom. Nothing more.
As far as people being born gay... that is false. Now, I do believe people are born with less desire for the opposite sex than others but that doesn't make you gay. If you're a man and you don't like women that doesn't mean you're gay. If you don't want to be with a woman then you got two choices.... try being gay or look fully to Christ for that love and affection we all crave. Paul, himself, said it is better to not marry anyway so you can spend more devoted time with Christ rather than splitting time with Christ and your wife. But being born gay doesn't happen. God didn't create us that way. There's a reason one man plus one woman equals new life. Thats the only formula that works. All the other formulas that we have tried to make have amounted to nothing but the destruction of life (AIDS epidemic).
So hopefully we are clear on where I stand now. I don't hate gay people. I hate the sin. I am opposed to looking the other way and tolerating such sin. I'm not a Mormon nor do I support their doctrines. I simply applaud them for fighting gay marriage harder than we have. In order to end this message on a better note I have given you guys a story from John MacArthur's life about his encounter with someone who turned from their sin and embraced our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm going to bed now. I love you ALL.
-TEvans
"I have baptized and others have baptized in the waters of baptism right here people who have been delivered from all these sins, including homosexuality. By God’s grace and through His saving love, homosexual sinners are redeemable and some of you sitting out there are living testimony to that fact. I remember sitting in the office one day, receiving a phone call from a man who said, “My name is David Chastane(?).” He said in a faint voice, “I am in a hospital, I need you to come and see me.” I went to a nearby hospital, I walked in the room, I knew immediately he was dying of AIDS because I know the look, I’ve seen it enough. He was surrounded by friends, all of whom were obviously homosexual. He was being attended to by an obviously homosexual nurse, or attendant. And I came up to his bed and he grasped my hand as tightly as he could in his weakened condition and said, “I have lived a homosexual life for over 20 years, I was raised in a Christian family and a Christian home and a Christian church. I know the gospel. I have rejected it and hated it all my life. Now I’m going to die from AIDS and I do not want to go to hell. Can you help me?”
And I said, “Of course I can.” And I began to give him the gospel and the room was empty in ten seconds. I’m telling you, ten seconds, if that. And he opened his heart to Christ. I prayed a long prayer and I asked God to be gracious to him and to save him while he clutched my hand, after which I said, “If you desire to pray, this is your opportunity to ask for forgiveness.” And he did and he prayed one of the most heart wrenching prayers I’ve ever heard in my life, pleading with God to forgive him for the wretched life that he had lived in defiance of what he had been raised to know is true. And after this long and passionate prayer, he stared at the wall and I said to him, “What are you looking at?” He said, “I’m looking at the clock over there because I want to remember the time of my new life.” And he was overwhelmed with a sense of joy. He said, “I have a lot to make up for in a very little time.”
I took some books down to him which he read as rapidly as he could. He gave testimony of his faith in Christ. And I think if I remember right, it was about five days and he was gone."
John MacArthur and his thoughts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5lgT49M2oY
Jules, you have to be kidding me with the "people are born gay" taunt. When is comes to sexual relationships the Bible cannot be any clearer on the line God has drawn. On one side of the fence we have sexual relationships between a man and his wife. On the other side of the fence is every other perverse sexual relationship (homosexuality, beastality, adultery). We as christians have to get off the fence with our views on this. The line has been drawn crystal clear without any excuses. Jules, so are you going to tell me that if someone comes up to you and says they were born sexually attracted to kittens that you are going to believe that crap? Homosexuality and beastality are the same under God's moral law. What about someone who says they are attracted to innocent children rather than consenting adults? Petifiles and gays are the same under God's moral law. You just going to love on them as they go on raping children? I would hope not. Yes, I gave you the extreme but I feel it is completely necessary given some of the comments I've been reading on here. Under God's law, it is clear that homosexuality, beastality, adultery, and rape are all perverse sexual acts that are not to be tolerated. Thats it. Discussion over. I am really sorry if this offends anyone but we are all seeking truth here and the truth is in God's Word. I've heard several people on this topic say we should "love on them". Well thats not enough for me. We are to love for them but true love is tolerating a sin that is going to lead to their eternal destruction. If you truly love a gay person then you try and lead them out of their sinful relationship with a sense of urgency. The average person engaged in homosexual life dies at the age of 39. I would truly hope that if I was openly in an adulterous relationship that you guys wouldn't simply tolerate it and "love on me". Don't let the liberal gay agenda pollute your minds from recognizing true right and wrong.
-TEvans
The last thing I want to say about Proposition 8 and gay rights is lets move on. I hate being the guy who writes the confrontational emails because he hates soft christianity. I don't get a kick out of it at all and it gives me no joy to write emails that are so straight forward and lacking compassion. I'm moving on with the following mindset and encouragement for this wonderful group of christian men. Like Jesus, lets be compassionate and loving towards ALL unbelievers but also like Jesus with compassion lets not forget to address the sin that holds people in bondage. That's it. I'm on to the next topic.
My Father in Heaven, I Love You so much and I want to make You proud. Please look upon my heart and see my love for Truth and Righteousness. Please, Father, help me find and maintain the proper balance of speaking Your Truth with compassion and boldness. Mold me into that good and faithful servant You desire me to be. Thank You Jesus. Amen.
-TEvans
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